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Ethics question

Post

JD

3:39 am December 18, 2010

 
1

I've only been playing for six months, so I'm still pretty new.  However during that six months I've studied and played a lot of poker.  A little while ago I came across a situation that I didn't know if I should have done something about.  This drunk guy on my right kept unintentionally (and unknowingly) flashing his hole cards to me all night, in a way that only I could see (we were in the 2 seats left of the dealer).  This guy was a fun loving drunk, the whole table had a lot more fun because of him.  One time he flashed the whole left of the table his cards when he turned around to talk to his wife, so he was told once not to expose his cards.  Intellectually I know that I'm technically cheating since I have an unfair advantage over the other players.  But I didn't want to be a buzzkill for the drunk guy, and if other players kept hearing me tell the guy to be more careful they would probably start to sour toward me. My final thought that this was a 2/4 limit game where people don't care too much about losing.  I'm guessing this is a unique situation that only occasionally happens at small stakes.  I chose to keep quiet.  Should I have spoken up?

Dylanfreake

4:54 am December 18, 2010

 
2

I may be wrong, but I would think that the one to say something should be the dealer or a poker room worker that may have been observing the game or another player .

David Hodson

5:39 am August 19, 2011

 
3

All I can tell you is what I do in the same situation…

 

A while back, I was playing in a 6/12 limit game with a little old lady who was doing the same thing as the drunk in your game. She would lift her cards completely off the table and up to her face to see them, and on each street she would look again. As we were playing 10 handed Hold 'em at a STUD table (slightly smaller, designed for 8 or 9 players, not 10), there was basically no way I could avoid seeing her hand, short of asking for a seat change.

 

Obviously changing seats would have been DUMB, because anyone moved to that spot may not have qualms about using the info they'd get; that would put me at a dis-advantage.

 

I could not ask for a table change, as this was the only 6/12 LHE game going.

 

What I did was warn her I had seen her cards first once, then TWICE. The 2nd time was in case she had not heard me or did not understand after the first time I had seen her hand. After that, she was on her own, in my opinion, as was I.

 

My feelings about the matter were that as long as I did nothing to TRY to see her cards (crane my neck, re-position my chair, look over specificlly to try to catch her at it), then any info which happened to come my way as a result of her failing eye sight was ok for me to use.

 

To be honest, still I think of that situation, and wonder if what I did was "right".

 

On the one hand, it is pretty STUPID to even think about passing up such  a huge advantage that could result in free money, but on the other hand was that money I won worth "taking advantage" of someone who probably could not physically do anything differently?

 

Maybe I should have shown her how to cup her cards in her hands so she could raise them to her face to see 'em…who knows.

 

I can live with the decision I did make though.

The Jinx

3:34 pm November 21, 2011

 
4

The very same thing happened to me last week, a player much better than I kept flashing his cards to me and as he was on my right I knew what he had before the action was on me. I informed him several times and didn't try to see his cards but it was a hugh advantage to me.

We get separated and meet up again at the final table and he is chip leader and again sat on my right. I tell him twice more about flashing his cards. I get knocked out 5th or 6th and he is still there when I leave.

I think I did the right thing to keep telling him, I would happily take all his money legally, but Iwouldn't feel right taking money by having an unfair advantage. Maybe I would think different if I was playing for millions,but I hope not.

Nick

12:01 pm November 26, 2011

 
5

First, it's not cheating. A player that doesn't protect his/her hand is a detriment to his/her own game. If you picked up on a tell would you think you were cheating because no one else knew about the tell? Would you then explain to the oponent that they had a tell, what it was, and how to avoid doing it?

Second, your best bet would be to get up and tell a floor person. This way you avoid any animosity from the other players. Then the floor person could take the player aside and try to explain what's going on away from anyone who might overhear, avoiding any embarrassment for the player. However, it's posible that the floor person would be unable to intercede because maybe that would be viewed as interfering with the game, I really don't know. But beyond that, I don't think the non-offending player has any responsibility.

Third, you shouldn't pick and choose. As far as I'm concerned, THAT'S cheating. Favoring one person over another (for example, telling the little old lady, but not the gruff a**hole everyone at the table hates), is as bad as collusion. That's like animal rights based on cuteness.

Flashing cards is a choice. It is a weakness. If you feel bad, depending on who it is (little old ladies, disabled war vets), tell management, even if they can't do anything about it. Otherwise, use their weakness to your advantage.

Tell or don't tell, but be consistent, and it's not cheating if you don't.


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